S06-E07 Hans is a XSEM Team Supervisor at Lam Research

In this episode, you’ll meet Hans. Hans is a cross-SEM team supervisor at Lam Research in Tualatin, Oregon. Hans made the move from Minneapolis, MN to Portland, OR back in 2016, originally joining Lam Research as a microscopy technician. Hans shares that technicians can expect a competitive salary, along with great benefits like healthcare. He also talked about how his specialized education in the nanoscience program at Dakota County Technical College prepared him for a successful career in the semiconductor industry.

Links from the show:

The Micro Nano Technology Education Center, MNT-EC: https://micronanoeducation.org

Careers at Lam Research: https://careers.lamresearch.com/careers

Microscopy Technician Training Program (MTTP) - Lam Research : https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.lamresearch.com/mttp/*enroll__;Iw!!Ka_JY85zDv0FFw!gGR-CyhQyS4dI0FP_wrJq63ZraRK7Txb6ZYNo3a5Jk__F0Ge6b1Wx4ZhXllLvJmAQUjZ4XDFiv0iIbgs4ms4fVWvGGqBa9w$

Transcript

Peter Kazarinoff  0:01  
From MNT-EC, the Micro Nanotechnology Education Center, this is Talking Technicians, the podcast about technicians: who they are, what they do, and where they come from. I'm your host, Peter Kazarinoff, and I teach technicians and engineers at Portland Community College. In each episode, you'll meet a working technician and hear their story. That means real interviews, with real technicians, about real jobs. And at the end of each episode, you'll hear actions you can take if you want to be a technician too. In today's episode, I'm talking with Hans. Hans works at Lam Research in Tualatin, which is in Oregon, just south of Portland. Hans, welcome to the podcast.

Hans  0:43  
Thanks, Peter. Glad to be here,

Peter Kazarinoff  0:44  
Hans. I'm really excited about talking with you today about your work at Lam Research, and also how you got there. But before we get started with all of that, How long have you been in Portland, and what brought you there?

Hans  0:57  
Yeah, I've been in Portland, Oregon, since 2016 so 10 years, almost to the day, I came here after receiving a job offer from Lam, when my previous company shut down their lab and moved, so it was a big transition point for my, for my life.

Peter Kazarinoff  1:17  
Right - so, like, originally working and got the job offer at Lam, and then this big, like, transition working in Portland. So, you said the transition was big. Can you go into a little more detail about that, like, what changed?

Hans  1:32  
Yeah, so I was living in Minneapolis, and you know, I really wanted to pursue a career in electron microscopy, and I got this job offer, and I had to determine was it worth moving across the country for a job that I had never done before in a place where I knew nobody, so those were the things that I was mentally going back and forth.

Peter Kazarinoff  1:59  
Right - and back in Minneapolis, were you doing electron microscopy or something different in Minneapolis?

Hans  2:05  
So, in Minneapolis, I had two separate jobs adjacent to the semiconductor industry. One, I was using a CAD program to design photo masks, and the second one, I was working in a clean room doing characterization on gallium nitride wafers,

Peter Kazarinoff  2:22  
Right - so, in the semiconductor industry, but not exactly those electron microscopy skills. So, Hans, let's talk a little bit about your current role at Lam Research. What's your professional job, and what do you do day to day at Lam?

Hans  2:38  
I am currently a supervisor for our XSEM team in the laboratory in Tualatin. For the first nine years that I lived here, I was a microscopy technician. So, as an electron microscopy technician, I operated a state of the art electron microscope, taking images for our customers to support our process engineering team that worked directly with our customers who bought Lam Research's wafer fabrication equipment, and we'd help them with real-time data and images to show how their layers were or were not working correctly.

Peter Kazarinoff  3:17  
Right. Right, so taking these electron microscope images, and then sharing with other teams at Lam Research, so that they can make sure that they improve what you do. So let's just talk a little bit about Lam. A lot of people have heard about Intel, or maybe heard about AMD, the big semiconductor companies. What kind of company is Lam, and how does that fit into the semiconductor industry?

Hans  3:44  
Lam Research is a manufacturing company that focuses on wafer fabrication equipment. We make our tools to help customers like Intel or other tech companies create their final chips using different deposition or etch tools to get from a blank silicon wafer to their final chip.

Peter Kazarinoff  4:08  
So it's sort of like Lam themselves, they don't make the microchips, but Lam makes the tools that then go on to make the microchips, right?

Hans  4:18  
Correct.

Peter Kazarinoff  4:19  
So, Hans, you said that you started out as a microscopy technician, and now you're working in a more supervisory role. Can you talk to me a little bit about the difference between those two roles at Lam? What did you do as a technician, and now what do you do in different in your current role?

Hans  4:34  
Yeah, as a technician, you're in the lab operating the tools full time, and that was something that you know I moved across the country to do, and I love to do, and as far as career paths inside of Lam and the Cem Lab, that is kind of the natural progression, you operate the tool, and if you're interested in pursuing a supervisor role, that's one path. The other path would be to pursue process engineering within the SEM lab, or in a different product group inside of Lam, and it's kind of cool that at Lam, in our lab, every single supervisor started off as a technician, and a lot of people, you know, after a few years, if they determine that they don't want to keep doing this, Lam Research is a large, large company, and there's a lot of room for lateral jumping inside.

Peter Kazarinoff  5:27  
Yeah, so I often ask guests, like, are there opportunities for professional development at your company? But clearly at Lam they are, because you started working as a technician, now working as a supervisor, when you were a technician, was a former technician one of your supervisors at that time?

Hans  5:44  
So, when I started, we had Lam Research into Alton, had just purchased a new single beam SEM tool, and they didn't have anyone to staff it, so they hired me to be the first person to staff it, so I didn't, my supervisor was a previous technician, but their experience was in STEM. So, my task when I got hired was to learn this tool, learn the best operating conditions, and support all the customers that were submitting samples for SEM. And within probably a year, we hired another technician to assist me, and then now we're up to a team of eight on the SEM team specifically, but we have about 40 to 60 people inside the lab as a whole doing other processing techniques.

Peter Kazarinoff  6:32  
Right - so it sounds like Lam is a growing company in the semiconductor industry, this is a growing industry right now.

Hans  6:38  
Correct. Yeah, we have a great lab in Tualatin, and we also have a really good lab in Fremont, California, where Lam Research is headquartered.

Peter Kazarinoff  6:48  
So, let's talk a little bit about things like compensation and benefits, along with your role at Lam. Do you have things like healthcare or retirement that goes along with your compensation?

Hans  7:01  
Yeah, you know, we have a very competitive financial structure for just salary, you know, per hour in general, but something that I always like to remind people of in the interview process is that Lam has a very robust benefit system, to the point where, as a personal aside, every time I go into the eye exam place, you know, to get my eyes checked. They're always kind of commenting, like, wow, these are very impressive benefits. Like, where do you work? Are they hiring? But, yeah, you know, healthcare, dental, vision, tuition reimbursement, student loan forgiveness. We have a really cool what they call a well-being stipend per year, which is up to it, is $500 and we can use that towards things like running shoes or photography to get out into nature more. It's kind of a motivator to get our, you know our workers a little bit more active or pursuing a hobby that they find brings them stress relief.

Peter Kazarinoff  8:09  
Right - yeah, I mean it must be nice working for a company that, like, wants to make sure that you stay healthy and that like wants to make sure that you stay interested in your hobbies and your activities, because really you're going to be more likely to stay at that company if they invest in you like that. So, Hans, in terms of compensation for someone who's starting out as a technician, either in the semiconductor supply industry or maybe a technician in one of the fabs, what can somebody expect to make about what's sort of like a broad salary range for folks.

Hans  8:42  
Yeah, so my expertise is in the SEM lab, right? So, usually when we're hiring people, they're coming in at a technician three level, which just is kind of the baseline for the SEM lab that we've determined, and that range that we offer is going to be from about 55 to $70,000 starting off, and that will obviously vary with experience, and you know, the more experience that someone has, they might be hired on at a higher, higher technician level than three.

Peter Kazarinoff  9:14  
Right, and we also talked about how there are opportunities for advancement, and then I imagine when you move up those steps, then your salary and your compensation increases a little bit. Let's just quickly talk about your work schedule. And then I want to know what it was like going to LAM for the first time. Do you do shift kind of work? Do you work nine to five? How does your schedule work at LAM?

Hans  9:36  
Yeah, so currently as a supervisor I have a weird shift - it's five days a week, but I kind of skew two of my days, so that I can overlap with my night shift technicians. But when I was a tech myself, I worked initially, it was five days a week for the first year or two, and then we shifted to four by 10s, and now we're shifting entirely to compressed. Joules, so 12 hours, front end, back end, depending on, you know, if you're on nights or days, that rotating day would either be, let's see, Saturday for night shift or Wednesday for day shift.

Peter Kazarinoff  10:14  
And you want to make sure that, like, you're aligned with all the technicians that are working and doing that scanning electron microscope work, so Hans, what did it feel like the first time that you went into LAM research? Was it intimidating? Was it scary? What did it feel like your first day of work?

Hans  10:32  
I think with any first day of anything, it's a whirlwind of a bit of overwhelming information, you know, you're getting bombarded with a lot of HR information and web-based trainings that all seem to be super critical and important to get done right away, but there's also a lot of.. there was a lot of excitement too with that first day, because I knew that, you know, I made a big, a big career jump and change, just moving across the country, and I was just excited to get some of that initial boring training stuff done, so that I could get into the lab and start to operate the tool, that was what I was really excited for.

Peter Kazarinoff  11:14  
And what does it feel like now going in? Does it feel different after you've been at Lam for a number of years?

Hans  11:20  
Yeah, there's.. it's interesting, the Tualatin campus.. there's a lot of trees, and there's a lot of new buildings, and lots of windows, which may seem like a strange thing to mention, but when I walk into the building, there's like.. it's almost a feeling of peace, and that kind of comes with experience, right? The more you do the job, the more familiar you are with it, and I feel like I know what I'm doing, and I'm pretty good at it. So, I can get to work and feel like I know what I need to do, and I just have to go about doing it in a smart manner.

Peter Kazarinoff  12:01  
Hans, you made this big change moving from Minneapolis, and then moving into this technician role at Lam Research. How did your life change for you? What was different for you once you became a technician at Lam Research?

Hans  12:15  
I think once I moved to Portland and got all the logistics of the move out of the way, I was able to finally feel like my work life and personal life sort of had a stable routine after college, and then the previous two jobs things were a little bit chaotic, but arriving in Portland, starting with Lamb, I had a very set work schedule. I was able to afford my rent comfortably, which was such a blessing. And then, aside from that, I was able to start saving money, you know, that's a big, a big benefit too.

Peter Kazarinoff  12:57  
So, Hans, let's kind of switch gears a little bit and talk about how you got to where you are now. What was your education background before you started working in the semiconductor industry in Minnesota? And then how did that eventually bring you to working at Lam?

Hans  13:16  
Yeah, so my background is a, I attended a two year nano science technology associate's program, which was hosted at Dakota County Technical College outside of Minneapolis, and the final semester was at the University of Minnesota, and that program sadly is no longer in operation, but there are a lot more programs like that, that have kind of popped up throughout the past 10 years.

Peter Kazarinoff  13:45  
So, you went to Dakota County Technical College in this two-year nanoscience program. How did that move into, like, your first role in the semiconductor industry?

Hans  13:58  
So, yeah, after I graduated, like, a lot of students were kind of just sitting around at home applying to jobs, and all of a sudden I got a company to take a chance on me, and that first job gave me a lot of really good experience in terms of what it's like to work a full-time job, what kind of soft skills are required to be a good worker, and also just what it's like showing up for work at the same place every day, you know, five days a week, and being reliable, and that's that was kind of a change for me, just because college, you have varying schedules, every day is a little bit different when you arrive, and things, but the repetitive nature took a little bit of time to get used to straight out of college.

Peter Kazarinoff  14:47  
Right. Right. And what do you feel like were some of the things that you took from that Dakota County Technical College degree program that you then brought into your first role in the semiconductor industry? Do you remember? Ever learning anything that then you like applied in your first role?

Hans  15:03  
Yeah, there were for sure some micro electronics classes that dealt with photo masks and the theory behind them, and how you know spin coders worked, and that sort of thing. And even though I wasn't in the lab operating the spin coder, or you know, being the person to finalize these masks, that experience is what got me the interview, and what kind of, as I was operating the CAD software that that company was using, it's what allowed me to have a bit of a deeper understanding of what we were doing and why we were doing it.

Peter Kazarinoff  15:38  
And so you worked in this first job after Dakota County. What happened next for you?

Hans  15:43  
Yeah, so after about a year and a half, a position opened up at a different company that was a little bit closer to my end goal of working in a laboratory, and I was in a clean room doing 12 hour shifts doing characterization work for gallium nitride wafers, so everything from warp and bow testing of the six inch wafers to defect mapping to xrd and afm breakdown voltage e beam lithography, a lot of varying steps to get a lot of different data for how their recipes were working.

Peter Kazarinoff  16:22  
And was it from that job that then you decided to make the transition to Lam and work in electron microscopy?

Hans  16:30  
Yeah, the company in Minneapolis decided, after a buyout from a different company, to shift all their R&D to Phoenix, and I had received an offer to go to Phoenix, and you know, Phoenix, Phoenix just wasn't really for me. I think it was a little bit excessively hot, but you know, that's that's okay for a lot of people, that's that's great. So, at that point during that transition, I was applying all over the country at different hot spots for the semiconductor industry, and Lam Research was the first one, and if I recall, the only one that actually got back to me, and I just so happened to have a trip planned to Portland for some concerts that I wanted to attend, and to just visit, and I had never been to the Pacific Northwest before, and it just so happened to line up with an interview, and I extended my trip, actually, by one day, so that I could have a second interview, and that following Monday I got the offer, and here we are.

Peter Kazarinoff  17:29  
Do you remember what band or like concert?

Hans  17:32  
Oh yeah, it was a musician named Jack Garrett, and they were performing at the Doug Fur in Portland, and I forget what the venue was in Seattle, but I followed him, the two, the two concerts.

Peter Kazarinoff  17:44  
Well, that's kind of like a special concert, because that's kind of like your lamb concert now, right? 

Hans  17:49  
Oh yeah, I'll never forget that, that trip, and just how it was very fortuitous. The timing was impeccable.

Peter Kazarinoff  17:57  
Right. So, Hans, it might not seem like it to you, but it sounds like to me you've had quite a career in the semiconductor industry, like going through education that's specific to micro nano, and then working on semiconductor fabrication characterization, and now working at one of the tier one supplier companies at Lam Research. So, based on all that experience, what advice would you have for people who want to transition their careers, or maybe students who are in high school and don't know what they want to do for their first job?

Hans  18:31  
It's a good question, because when I was in high school, I initially was kind of planning on being a history teacher, or a science teacher, or something, and what ended up turning me on to this career path is my uncle actually is a physics teacher in Minneapolis, and someone from Dakota County came and gave us kind of a little lecture to the students about this new program that they were offering, and he told me about it, and I just thought that that seemed very interesting, and I've always been a very tech-forward person, so I decided to kind of change my mental path for my college and pursue that route, but for someone you know considering either this straight out of high school, if you already are aware of this industry, I would just recommend searching out very specialized two year programs. I feel like that's the best direct pipeline to get into this industry in a manufacturing or electron microscopy role. I know also that PCC offers a brand new electron microscopy training program, which just started up last spring, and people were hired directly from that. I believe it was a, I want to say, 12 week program, where they learned the theory behind the microscopes, but then also got to come to Lam and operate one of the tools for a couple hours after some the. Some shadowing and training, not just directly on the million dollar tools, but yeah, so actively seeking out different very specialized programs is kind of the best path that I can recommend. A four year program is great, but a lot of times there's a lot of courses in there that won't really apply to this kind of work, and you know, I can speak from experience that when I see someone with a two year degree in this kind of field, I just know that they got a very specialized education to pursue this kind of work.

Peter Kazarinoff  20:40  
Right, and although it seems like the semiconductor industry is really complicated and very expensive, there are community colleges across the country that do have these specialized programs in things like electron microscopy or microelectronics or electronic engineering technology that you can then take and then move into roles like your role at Lam, so Hansudah to finish up today. Is there anything we haven't covered, or do you have a final call to action for people who are listening to the podcast?

Hans  21:13  
You know, I think we've covered a lot, and I would just say that, like you just said, this industry is booming to the point where we are, you know, at Lam, at every company adjacent to us, we are going to be in need of real people to come in and do this work, and Lam Research. I am biased, but I feel like we're a great company, and if you're interested in learning more specifically about open positions we have immediately or in the future that can be done at Lamb research.com/careers and just to confirm, it's Lam lam, not the animal, it's a common question I get, but yeah, and you know, for someone considering changing careers, when I was at Dakota County, a lot of my classmates were in that position, and it was a big change, and I just would recommend, as aside from, you know, this kind of conversation, just to lean on and ask for support from your friends and family as you go through this transition, you know, quitting a job and pursuing a new career adds a lot of stress onto someone, but if it's something that you're interested in and can do and have that kind of support structure in place, I just couldn't highly recommend it enough.

Peter Kazarinoff  22:38  
Well, Hans, thank you so much for being on the podcast to me, and talking with me, both about your work at Lamb Research and also your background at Dakota County Technical College, and how you worked in the semiconductor industry.

Hans  22:50  
Yeah, you're welcome.

Peter Kazarinoff  22:51  
Please keep in touch.

Hans  22:53  
Will do.

Peter Kazarinoff  22:55  
Talking Technicians is produced by MNT-EC, the Micro Nanotechnology Education Center, through financial support from the National Science Foundation's Advanced Technological Education Grant Program. Opinions expressed on this podcast do not necessarily represent those of the National Science Foundation.