Talking Technicians
Talking Technicians
S05-E07 Ani is an intern at the Cal Tech Nano Lab
Ani, an intern at Caltech's KNI clean room, discusses her role in nanotechnology fabrication. Ani trained on various machines, including the Orion metal deposition equipment and an ellipsometer. Ani emphasizes the importance of protective gear and the challenges of working in a loud environment. She recounts her first day and the impact of the California fires on her personal and professional life, highlighting the support she received from the MNT-EC community. Ani plans to pursue a career in the cleanroom and encourages other students to give it a try.
The Talking Technicians podcast is produced by MNT-EC, the Micro Nano Technology Education Center, through financial support from the National Science Foundation's Advanced Technological Education grant program.
Opinions expressed on this podcast do not necessarily represent those of the National Science Foundation.
Join the conversation. If you are a working technician or know someone who is, reach out to us at info@talkingtechnicians.org.
Links from the show:
Episode Web Page:
https://micronanoeducation.org/students-parents/talking-technicians-podcast/
New story about the semiconductor pilot program at UCLA which prepares community college students for jobs in the growing industry: https://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/semiconductor-pilot-program-ucla-prepares-community-college-students-for-jobs
Peter Kazarinoff 0:02
From MNT-EC, the Micro Nano Technology Education Center, this is Talking Technicians. The podcast about technicians: who they are, what they do, and where they come from. I'm your host, Peter Kazarinoff. I teach technicians and engineers at Portland Community College. In each episode, you'll meet a working technician and hear their story. That means real interviews, with real technicians, about real jobs. At the end of each episode, you'll hear actions you can take if you want to be a technician too.
In this episode, you'll meet Ani. Ani is an intern at Cal Tech's Kni clean room in Pasadena, California. Ani, welcome to Talking Technicians.
Ani 0:52
Hi Peter. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.
Peter Kazarinoff 0:55
Thank you for coming on and talking with me about your work in the Kni clean room and at Cal Tech. So Annie Caltech is located in Pasadena, California. Did you grow up in California?
Ani 1:08
Yes, I was actually born here. My parents immigrated here from Armenia and raised me here.
Peter Kazarinoff 1:12
So you were raised in California, and now we're working sort of close by. So let's talk about where you work right now. So you work at the Kni clean room, at Cal Tech. What is a clean room? And what do you do there?
Ani 1:26
A clean room is a facility that, I guess, fosters nanotechnology fabrication. It is kind of like a base where people can use very high tech equipment to create nano scale devices.
Peter Kazarinoff 1:40
Ani, when you go into work, what are the kind of things that you do, maybe like at the beginning of the day, the middle of the day and the end of the day? What do you do in the clean room?
Ani 1:50
So I'm an undergraduate student, meaning I'm still learning, so a big part of my role is just shadowing and learning and taking on training. So I am currently going through training operations onto different machines. Like just last week, I was being trained on the Orion metal deposition equipment. I shadow my PI for my research project right now. Hank Postma, I learn a lot from him. Yeah, those are my big tasks. Right now. I'm just learning so.
Peter Kazarinoff 2:15
Ani, you mentioned that you were learning on a metal deposition system. What other kind of systems have you learned to use in the clean room, or might be coming up for you?
Ani 2:25
I have also had training on an ellipsometer, which is the what I'm going to be using it for, is for measurements, but it could be used for a variety of things. I've also gotten training on different microscopes, like a nano spec, the CANS microscope. I need to get training on a lot of equipment, such as the Carl SaaS mascot, liner, um, the dry Etcher, yeah, there's a, there's a two that I need to get training on soon.
Peter Kazarinoff 2:49
So, so that the clean room there has many different both, uh, fabrication tools that you can use to make semiconductor devices, but also has some characterization tools too, that you can look at those devices with.
Ani 3:03
Yeah, absolutely. There's lots of different machinery at the KNI lab. They're all so different from each other, yet also similar. When you get training on one you kind of get that training and transfer it over to the next device. You learn as you go. It's like a really good progression curve.
Peter Kazarinoff 3:19
Ani, what kind of things do you have to wear or put on when you go into the can I clean room?
Ani 3:25
The KNI clean room is a clean room, so to be very clean so you have to put on lots of protective wear. We call it like a bunny suit. It's this white suit that goes over your whole body. Wear gloves, masks, goggles, hair nets, and then you put on these, like booties on your feet, along with a head guard, like a coverall, and yeah, and then it's very important to keep yourself clean.
Peter Kazarinoff 3:48
So Ani, everybody is wearing these bunny suits, like you called them, how do you make sure that you know who else is in the clean room and that that you know who you are?
Ani 3:58
Um, I think a big part is definitely gonna be the eye region, if they were any glasses, if they have, like, maybe different color eyes. Also, I guess there's a posture stance. You kind of get used to how tall people are.
Peter Kazarinoff 4:10
Yeah. So Ani, what did it feel like your first day in the KNI clean room? Do you remember what it felt like the first day you went into work?
Ani 4:18
So my first day, I remember, this is actually not my first experience in a clean room. I've also had experience at UCLA cnsi clean room, so it wasn't super unfamiliar for me, but it was a very different layout. So it's a bit of a shock. I had to get used to it. I was a little bit overwhelmed because, of course, there's lots of very expensive, high tech machines all around you, but overall, it was a good experience. I was really excited to go into work
Peter Kazarinoff 4:41
And Ani, in your work as an intern, do you get paid? What kind of salary or wage might somebody expect?
Ani 4:50
Yeah, so since I'm just an undergraduate intern, we have a stipend for the MNT program, and we just get it paid at the end.
Peter Kazarinoff 4:57
So you've got to complete some of that Intern Training. And then you'll earn a stipend once you complete it. So Ani, let's kind of transition and talk about how you got to where you are now. You mentioned that you grew up in California. Did you go to high school there too?
Ani 5:13
Yes, I went to Pasadena High School in Pasadena,
Peter Kazarinoff 5:16
And after high school, what did you do next?
Ani 5:19
I went to Pasadena City College, where I currently am, and I plan to get an associate's degree from my community college and then transfer.
Peter Kazarinoff 5:28
And what are you studying right now at community college in Pasadena?
Ani 5:32
I'm studying electrical engineering.
Peter Kazarinoff 5:35
Wow, that sounds kind of difficult. So what are some of the things that have been difficult in community college so far for you?
Ani 5:44
I would say the dynamic among our peers is a little bit different, because most students are focused on transferring, so it's a little bit harder to make friends, as compared to a four year university where they all kind of have that common um, or unity. It's a lot more divided at PCC, however, it's also where I make some really good friends, because we're on the same boat, or on the community college, and you'd be bond over that a lot. So I do like it.
Peter Kazarinoff 6:08
Ani, what kind of things from your community college experience have been useful working in the clean room?
Ani 6:14
I would definitely say my resourcefulness in terms of connecting with people, because, as I said, it could be pretty hard community like connecting with people at community college. So I've gotten better at small talk. I used to be very shy and introverted, so I've gotten a lot better at expressing myself and also just asking questions. I think that's a really important thing, especially in any learning environment, is knowing when to ask questions and what you need to do to learn.
Peter Kazarinoff 6:37
Ani, you mentioned that the clean room has a lot of pieces of high tech equipment, things to make devices or look at them. But are there also interpersonal skills that you need to have when you work in there, things like communication, both written and verbal, that are important in your work?
Ani 6:55
Yeah, absolutely. Just because, because of how many high tech machines there are, you need to be good at following instructions, reading and paying attention. And also, there are always machines constantly being up and down. Something's going wrong, something's breaking. So you need to keep up with the notes that people are leaving, because we have a communication platform called slack, where we leave updates on notes on machinery. So that's number one. You need to be reading that, be up to date, and communicate with the other k and i staff members on the machinery.
Peter Kazarinoff 7:27
Ani, what's something unexpected about working in the clean room that you only found out once you started?
Ani 7:33
I would say how loud it is in there, because there's a fan. Obviously the air is constantly being ventilated and circulated through. So it is a little bit loud when you step out. It's like the world just goes silent. It's so different being in there and out. It's almost a little bit over stimulating when you're in there, but you get used to it.
Peter Kazarinoff 7:51
Ani, you mentioned that you're a community college student and also an intern at the same time. What are some challenges that are associated both with being a student and just being where you are in Pasadena right now.
Ani 8:06
Yeah, I'd say with the hardest part about being a student and an intern is just time management, you know, finding time for both for my studies and for the internship, but it's also been one of the ways I've been strengthening my time management skills by learning how to multitask or learning how to divide my time. I used to study last semester. When I had my other internship, I would spend hours studying and then hours doing the internship stuff. And I learned the harder way that that does not work. You need to break it up into digestible pieces a little bit a day. You know, just studying, like even an hour a day,
Peter Kazarinoff 8:36
Ani, we know that recently, there were some fires in California. Did that affect the clean room or affect you? How did that figure into your work?
Ani 8:46
Yeah, so the fires, I unfortunately was affected by the fires, my house burned down, and I had to go live with a relative. This did impact me, both, like, emotionally, financially, everything. I kind of lost a lot of motivation for this field, like, and the fires first hit, because it was like I lost everything. It was really hard to overcome that obstacle mentally. But due to the support that I've had from the MNTC and my school, it they really showed me that instead of giving up, this should be the time where I want to work even more, because I need to see that there is a future for me. Yeah, many people from MNT tech and others in the field have helped me in this time of need, which need, which showed me the importance of being involved in a community like this. And so it just pushed me to want to work even harder towards my goals, rather than putting them behind because I learned that anything can be gone in a second. You know, don't take anything for granted. Just keep working towards your goals. And the canine cleanroom was affected by the fires as well, because, obviously, in a clean room, there needs to be a minimal amount of particles in the air to avoid getting debris on your samples, your wafers. So there was lots of particles in the air during the fires, and it had to be shut down for, I believe, like two or three weeks to fully clean it out. So that really. Take a pause in our work.
Peter Kazarinoff 10:01
So it affected you, both personally, but also professionally too. So I'm just really impressed with the amount of energy and fortitude that you're able to do to work through that was the clean room as well as the community college pretty flexible during that tough time.
Ani 10:21
Yes, they were honestly the backbone of my support. My community at the clean room was incredible. So I mentioned the stipend earlier. They when they heard about my situation, they got me the stipend sooner in order to help with my financial needs, which really did help a big burden in my life. And PCC has also been very understanding, because I was taking a winter course when the fires happen, and our professor was very understanding of this time.
Peter Kazarinoff 10:46
Well, that's good to hear that you got some support that you need and that you're continuing to work and move on. So any What are your plans once you finish Community College and working in the clean room? What's coming up next for you?
Ani 11:00
Oh, after community college, my goal is definitely to transfer. I do want a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering. So I believe a degree is a good foundation for wherever I decide to go in life, whether that be a technician, engineer, whatever. So yeah, right now my main focus is getting a degree, but I also do want to get more experience in internships. So I believe, although education is important, so is internships.
Peter Kazarinoff 11:24
And are you considering working in the micro nano industry once you graduate?
Ani 11:29
Yes, a big part, big part of my goals right now, currently, is to work in the semiconductor industry as a clean room technician. So I really do want to work in a clean room when I grow up, which isn't super common, because I feel like the clean room is kind of draining for a lot of people, and it is just totally fair, but I just think it's such a unique environment, like there's nowhere else that's like it. So I really do enjoy my time there. So I have had two experiences now in a clean room, and I love both of them. So I do know that this is what I want to do.
Peter Kazarinoff 11:58
Ani, what advice would you give current students, like your classmates at Pasadena City College, or people who might want to transition their careers and work in the clean room or work in the micro nano industry. What advice would you give them?
Ani 12:13
I would say the best piece of advice that I've had is to don't doubt yourself, because last semester or last summer, when I was doing the UC internship, I remember my first day, I was just doubting myself. I was like, Oh, I'm not smart enough for this. I'm not cut out for this, because I had no experience prior to that. And it was like, really imposter syndrome. I was feeling like I didn't belong there, and it almost discouraged me from applying or going at all. But you need to remind yourself that you are your toughest critic. It is really not like that. It is completely subjective. Everyone is on their own journey. You need to work at your own pace and just focus on what you love, and it will all turn out all right. So just apply. Put yourself out there, be confident and don't doubt yourself. I really want to emphasize to apply honestly, because that almost like made me not do any of this at all. Like I almost didn't apply and I didn't want to do it, especially with the fires too. When it happened, I was like, Oh yeah, I'm not doing this anymore. And I'm so glad that I didn't listen to myself and I did it anyway. So I feel like, as long as that message is in there, that's like, really want to get out there. Yeah.
Peter Kazarinoff 13:14
Did you feel like the application at the time was like, a big barrier? Did it seem like a lot of work or a lot of time, or you just felt like you yourself couldn't do it. Do you know what I mean?
Ani 13:26
Yeah, I felt like you just me myself, because the application there wasn't really an application itself, because it was a pilot program. So I was offered, like I was told about this opportunity through the 83 MNT tech program, and that's where I learned about it. I just had zero experience. At that time, I was a freshman. I didn't even know what I wanted to do. I just knew I was in electrical engineering, and I didn't think I was qualified. But even though they said, oh, there's no prior experience needed, I still was thinking, Oh, no, I can't do it. And I almost didn't, but then my faculty mentor gave me some advice, and he convinced me that I should do it, and I'm so glad that he did.
Peter Kazarinoff 14:00
Well, Ani, thank you so much for being on talking technicians and sharing your story with me.
Ani 14:06
Thank you for having me.
Peter Kazarinoff 14:07
Please keep in touch.
Ani 14:08
Thank you so much.
Peter Kazarinoff 14:18
Talking Technicians is produced by MNT-EC, the Micro Nano Technology Education Center through financial support from the National Science Foundation's Advanced Technological Education grant program. Opinions expressed on this podcast do not necessarily represent those of the National Science Foundation. Join the conversation: If you are a working technician, or know someone who is, reach out to us at info@talkingtechnicians.org. We're always looking out for great guests to share more stories with you.