S05-E01 Emily worked with NASA, the White House, and is now at Intel

In this episode of Talking Technicians, you’ll meet Emily, a facilities engineer at Intel. Emily shares her journey from community college to a full-time engineering role, discussing her experiences in the clean room, the challenges she faced as a woman in engineering, and the importance of soft skills and networking in her career. She emphasizes the diverse opportunities available in the semiconductor industry and offers valuable advice for aspiring technicians.

The Talking Technicians podcast is produced by MNT-EC, the Micro Nano Technology Education Center, through financial support from the National Science Foundation's Advanced Technological Education grant program.

Opinions expressed on this podcast do not necessarily represent those of the National Science Foundation.

Join the conversation. If you are a working technician or know someone who is, reach out to us at info@talkingtechnicians.org.

Links from the show:

Episode Web Page: https://micronanoeducation.org/students-parents/talking-technicians-podcast/

Careers at Intel: https://jobs.intel.com/en

Lorain Community College Microelectronic Manufacturing Program: http://catalog.lorainccc.edu/academic-programs/engineering-business-information-technologies/microelectronic-manufacturing-bas/

The White House Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP): https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/

Transcript

Peter Kazarinoff  0:00  
From MNT-EC, the Micro Nano Technology Education Center, this is Talking Technicians. The podcast about technicians: who they are, what they do, and where they come from. I'm your host, Peter Kazarinoff. I teach technicians and engineers at Portland Community College. In each episode, you'll meet a working technician and hear their story. That means real interviews, with real technicians, about real jobs. At the end of each episode, you'll hear actions you can take if you want to be a technician too.

In this episode, you'll meet Emily. Emily is a facilities engineer at the Intel Corporation in Phoenix, Arizona. Emily, welcome to Talking technicians.

Emily  0:52  
Thanks, Peter. I'm glad to be here.

Peter Kazarinoff  0:55  
Emily. I'm so glad that you're here and that we get to talk about your career journey and what ultimately brought you to Intel. But before we go into that, you live in Phoenix, Arizona, how long have you been there for and what brought you there?

Emily  1:09  
I've been in the Phoenix area for about two months now. I'm originally from Northeast Ohio, and I've been here for the duration of two months, partially because I wanted to explore nature and the surrounding national parks, but mostly to pursue my job at Intel.

Peter Kazarinoff  1:24  
So Emily, you work as a facilities engineer at Intel. Can you just describe a little bit about what that means as compared to other job roles? And then after that, let's talk about your career journey and how you got there. Sure.

Emily  1:42  
So as a facilities engineer currently, with only two months of experience, my current day to day is a lot of morning meetings discussing pass downs. So that's sharing information from one shift to another to make sure that everybody's on the same page about what something might have happened if any errors or quality faults might have occurred, and I spend a lot of time currently doing online safety trainings and reviewing content for certifications. I do walks in the field with my team, ensuring that the work in the field is being done by the written protocols, as well as doing safety walks, documenting if something's out of place or could cause a potential hazard if not corrected.

Peter Kazarinoff  2:23  
So Emily, let's talk about how you got to Intel, both what was your work experience and your education experience. Tell me about that career pathway for you.

Emily  2:36  
I always knew that I wanted to be an engineer, but going to a university or state college wasn't a viable option for me right out of high school, so wanting to continue my education, I ended up enrolling at Lorain County Community College in Ohio. I spent a year studying business administration, and did not enjoy it, and ended up discovering the micro electro mechanical systems or MEMS program at Lorain County Community College, and I have spent the last several years studying that. I spent four years completing that. I started with the MEMS program, and I was excited, because part of the reason why it's such a unique program is that you start day one, semester one, in a clean room and using tools and spending time in a clean room learning how to use skills and practical tools to be able to work in everyday life.

Peter Kazarinoff  3:30  
Emily, it's pretty unusual for a community college to have a clean room. What did it feel like for you walking into that clean room at Lorraine Community College?

Emily  3:41  
I initially was a bit overwhelmed. It's a little bit scary walking into a space that is a tinted in orange color. The whole room is kind of a orange amber light, and that is to prevent the premature curing of specific materials in the clean room, we do a lot of chemical processing for wafer manufacturing and fabrication, and we use things that are cured by UV light. And so there are coverings and specific light bulbs we use that make the clean room appear to be a more amber color, so we don't accidentally cure some of the chemicals we're using.

Peter Kazarinoff  4:21  
So Emily, besides the lighting sort of looking weird, did you have to dress up in anything different when you go into the clean room? How did that work?

Emily  4:31  
You're wearing a really unique and different outfit, including a frock, which is kind of like a big apron, but it covers your whole body. You're wearing things like a hair net to prevent hair and dandruff from touching any processes you're working on. You're wearing gloves, a face mask, sometimes that includes a beard covering if you have facial hair, sometimes booties to cover your feet if there are any sort of if there's. Rain or snow outside, you're wearing a lot of different equipment to prevent any outside particulates or just various factors that you want to avoid in the clean room space from hindering any processes going on inside.

Peter Kazarinoff  5:18  
And Emily, when you are inside that clean room, could you clearly tell who all of your classmates or instructors were, or when you wear all of that? Does it kind of make everyone seem a little anonymous?

Emily  5:29  
You know, it gets better with time. It's definitely difficult going in your first couple days when you hardly know the faces to names of people, when you can see them out in the lecture hall anyway. But it ends up evolving that you end up learning people's glasses and their eye color. So when your body is primarily covered by all of this gear, you are typically looking at the eye slits that are visible, and you remember somebody's name based off of what their eyes or glasses look like? So,

Peter Kazarinoff  6:01  
Emily, it sounds like maybe it feels a little silly wearing all of this equipment when you first start and you first go into the clean room. But how does it feel now getting all suited up?

Emily  6:15  
So I have actually not worked in the fabs here at Intel yet. That is not something that I was particularly fond of in school. It was a great experience. I really enjoyed learning about wafer fabrication and processing, but it wasn't a process that I was particularly interested in with time. I ended up being fine in all of the clean room clothing, but it's just the work that didn't interest me. So here at Intel, I am not working in a fab I am actually more in an office environment or out in the field rather than in a fabrication space. So instead of wearing fabric, instead of wearing clean room gear, I actually swapped that for construction safety gear.

Peter Kazarinoff  7:02  
So this is really interesting, Emily, I think we should make sure to highlight this and share this with the audience. So not everybody that works in the fab in the microchip factory at Intel has to dress up in the bunny suits. Can you describe other sorts of roles besides yours that aren't people that have to dress up in those bunny suits and work on the inside of the clearing room.

Emily  7:26  
I currently work in a business unit called Corporate Services. And something that is fascinating with corporate services not knowing what it meant before I started here was it is primarily supporting the factory and the fabrication and Intel as a whole, and whatever that might mean. So there is a bit more admit, there is a little bit of business administration that happens within corporate services. But there are a lot of different roles at Intel that actually don't step foot in the fabs at all. You

Peter Kazarinoff  7:59  
don't have to work in the clean room when you work at Intel, there are a lot of different roles that you can do. I think that's a really good thing to highlight, because I agree. I don't think all the students that like stick on that white suit necessarily want to work that way every single day of their working life, but there are plenty of different other roles that you can have.

Emily  8:23  
I was really excited to find out that working at Intel didn't specifically deem I had to work in a fab because, like I said, with my experience in college, it's very fascinating, but that the chemical aspect of Wafer Fabrication just wasn't something I was particularly interested in. So I was delighted to find out there were plenty of other opportunities at Intel.

Peter Kazarinoff  8:43  
Emily, let's talk a little bit more about your education. So you mentioned that you were one of the first women that came out of that program. What were some other challenges or roadblocks when you were working through that MEMS program at Lorain Community College?

Emily  9:01  
Being one of the only women in a classroom is always a little bit daunting. I think that goes for any space, but especially a space in which you are more vulnerable because you are completely at a different knowledge level than the people around you, and you're doing your best to absorb the information that you can I think one of the challenges for me at the beginning was learning how to be learning how to advocate for myself and others, while also learning how I learn. I was learning how to do various high level engineering calculations and electrical work and practical electrical knowledge in a field and lots of different chemical processes throughout the circuit board and wafer manufacturing processes. And this work was not easy, so it was difficult to find how. How I best learned in this environment, but then was also able to thrive as one of the few women in it,

Peter Kazarinoff  10:07  
Emily, you mentioned a bunch of different technical skills, as well as working in the clean room. But how are interpersonal skills important in your work? Some people call these soft skills. As a community college graduate, how to use those kind of soft skills or professional skills in your work.

Emily  10:28  
Something that I found in college was documentation was incredibly important for me, and as I've continued this, I've found it's kind of funny that a lot of men don't like documenting, and I think it might be that they're just so excited to get to work and begin troubleshooting and figuring things out. And I think that the way that I learn has been a bit more difficult at times, and it is best for me to be able to take as many notes as possible and really thorough notes, and taking that skill into different parts of my education and work. I am, I am a really avid documentary. I write down as much as I possibly can, both in lecture and just listening to people's instructions when it comes to daily work, being able to write notes that are thorough enough for you to be able to understand six months later, or for somebody else to be able to comprehend or to be able to piece together a process you might have done. Having great notes is a really incredible skill to have. I would also say that communication is a really important skill as well, and that plays into so many aspects of life, but it's not always a skill that people really think about as everybody speaks and everybody writes, but the ability to communicate with different people is such an underrated soft skill that I think a lot of people should be spending more time proactively Thinking about and it all comes down to practice, practicing speaking with your peers, someone on the same level as you, whether that's in a classroom or just on the street. That's just basic socialization. But then speaking with somebody who maybe in a classroom has less experience or less knowledge than you, being able to speak with somebody who may know less than you being able to convey what you're trying to explain in a way that can be summarized for somebody that is just learning something for the first time, or that doesn't come off in a elitist kind of way. Using specific language that makes you sound smarter than other people doesn't come off well a lot of the time when you're trying to develop relationships and make friends. So practicing speaking with people every day, as well as people that might have less experience or knowledge than you. And then, I would argue, one of the more important things to practice are speaking with people that are either superiors, professors, people hire in your chain of people hire in your chain of command. That gives you so much experience being able to gain the confidence to be able to ask for things that you need, as far as just things not working out a certain way, and being able to ask for additional help, but then with confidence, you're able to ask people that you are impressed by or you would like to learn more about, being able the confidence to speak to somebody who is higher up in a profession than you, and asking to get coffee or to have lunch. And a lot of the time, these people, more than likely, will say yes, because it takes a lot of confidence to be able to ask somebody who has a lot of things going on and they're high up in a food chain. It takes a lot of confidence, and it shows initiative, and it shows initiative and confidence that you're willing to speak with these people, they are more often than not, willing to clear their schedule to be able to speak with somebody showing ambition and confidence. So practicing communication is a really important skill in all aspects of life.

Peter Kazarinoff  14:16  
Emily, we sort of have one more general question before we finish up today, and that's what advice would you give current students or people who want to transition their careers and work in the semiconductor industry like you do? What would you say to prospective students that maybe haven't started that MEMS program yet, but we're in a program like you were in business administration or maybe in another job,

Emily  14:42  
exposing yourself to as many potential connections and opportunities as you can when you're in school, whether that is signing up for industry partner tours, attending open houses, exploring professional development communities, all of these things connect you with people who might know your strengths or. Weakness is better than you do, and that gives other people the opportunity to recommend you or refer you for job opportunities you might not have even known of yourself at the bare minimum, it puts you in a place where things happen. So much of success in today's world is balancing between skill determination, networking and being in the right place at the right time, or just pure luck. So by joining clubs, attending seminars, attending spending time talking with professors after class, all of this works into building a network that is creating that increases the chances of somebody thinking of you when an opportunity pops up, there are so many organizations dedicated to helping various demographics of people looking to transition into manufacturing or technical work, I would say that it is worth looking into any local groups that can provide additional resources for you in your career journey.

Peter Kazarinoff  15:56  
Well, Emily, thank you so much for talking with me about your career journey and also sharing with me the different types of roles that you can have in the semiconductor industry.

Emily  16:07  
Part of why I was saying it's so important to get involved with your network is I have had a lot of incredible opportunities that happened because I was in the right place at the right time, and because I was speaking with people who knew me better than I did in school, I had an advisor reach out to me, recommending that I look into something called the Ohio Space Grant Consortium, which provides money to students to perform scholarships, fellowships and internships, working on research that they are interested in. And through that, I ended up being able to perform three individual research projects with a group affiliated with NASA by the time that I graduated, and had I not spoken with these professors that knew me to be able to recommend opportunities like this to me, I never would have been able to do this. I had the opportunity to get paid to work on a research project that I was personally interested in, and the experience of writing a research paper that was then published with a NASA Affiliated Organization. And another incredible opportunity that I have had because I was recommended by people that thought I was a good match for something. The same advisor who recommended me to look into this NASA research opportunity was the same woman shout out to Courtney 10 over who recommended that I look into a internship with the White House and with my experiences, I did not think that that was something I was anywhere qualified to do. I only worked at I was only a student at a community college working on something that was super heavily tech or science based. That the niche topic of semiconductors. I had no idea that the White House would have any interest in that, but the Office of Science and Technology Policy at the White House is a group that is specifically interested and dedicated towards science policy being rolled out in an equitable and beneficial way for all Americans. And with my experiences as somebody in a community college, which is something the Biden and Harris administration cares deeply about, and with my very niche degree being semiconductors, I was able to I was able to speak about my experiences at the community college and my interest in the fact that the domestication of manufacturing in the United States is such an important thing, both for bringing jobs for American people within manufacturing in the semiconductor industry, as well as a matter of as well as it being a matter of national security, making sure that we are able to get the chips that we need for our every device that we use in daily use, in a from American companies.

Peter Kazarinoff  19:05  
And so, Emily, you actually worked with the executive branch of the federal government as one of your projects when you were a student?

Emily  19:13  
In the fall of 2022 I actually relocated to Washington, DC, and I spent a full three month internship working in the Executive Office of the President, within the Office of Science and Technology Policy, as a communications intern.

Peter Kazarinoff  19:30  
That's amazing. What did, what did that experience feel like working within the federal government, and particularly within the executive branch, like the president's office.

Emily  19:41  
I wasn't actually working in the office of the president. He has a lot of security preventing that, but it was. It was an absolutely incredible experience. One of my favorite takeaways that I learned was the federal government is. Actually, literally just a big office building. I think that is so fascinating when you think about what people perceive the government to be. And after working within the Eisenhower Executive Office Building and seeing that it really just is a bunch of office workers just trying to get their work done before the end of the day, and they're running around trying to make sure that they get the sign offs from the correct people, and trying to make sure that we can push democracy forward and provide and make sure that the most informed policy decisions regarding science and technology are being pushed forward to our legislators.

Peter Kazarinoff  20:39  
What did it feel like moving from Ohio to Washington, DC for those three months.

Emily  20:46  
It was an absolutely incredible experience. After living there for three months, I can confidently say DC is one of my favorite cities. I loved living there. I loved the public transportation and everything the city has to offer. It was interesting because I actually ended up living with 17 roommates in a very large house, and I was the only person in that house of 17 people that did not have a political background. A lot of my housemates either had a background in political science or they had previously worked on campaigns for different politicians, and I was the only person that I was the only person living in that house that did not have that sort of political background or political interest. I think me explicitly stating that I didn't have a strong interest and a political career, but that I was there to serve the American people because I care about science, and I care about how science affects daily people. Or I care about the way that science affects daily Americans. I think that contributed to them selecting me, because it didn't the committee that decides who gets selected for such a prestigious internship or fellowship within the White House, they have to go through 1000s of applications of people that one day think they might be the president. And I believe that by being able to comfortably say that my desire to serve the White House is based on my interest in serving the American people and providing policy in whatever that in whatever way that might be, through science and technology, I think that made me a unique candidate for being able to have such a unique experience there.

Peter Kazarinoff  22:29  
So Emily, after you were in DC, and then you finished your degree, then you moved all the way across the country, to Arizona to work at Intel, how did your life change when you moved to Arizona and did you live with 17 roommates? Now,

Emily  22:48  
I would argue the biggest difference is the regional difference. I went from Ohio having temperatures between 18 to 100 degrees in any given week to coming to Arizona, and the weather is always hot, and there's not a lot of trees, but there's a lot of cactus, so it's been a bit of a culture shock. Intel came to Lorain County Community College looking to find students working on their associate's degree for internship technician roles, and I thought that not knowing if Intel was a company I was interested in working at after graduation, I still wanted to check out what the info session had to offer, and learning about the company and their values and the sort of work that their interns and technicians do. And I thought it was fascinating, and I ended up putting in an application for an internship. I was initially only interested in an internship with Intel because I didn't love the idea of committing to moving across the country. Right off the bat, I I think that I applied for an internship initially because I was more interested in experiencing what the job or the region or the experience might be like before committing to moving across the country full time. But I provided a copy of my resume to the HR representative that was there at the time, and I had expressed interest, I had gotten a call back within a week in which the woman on the phone said you were grossly overqualified for this internship with your degree, that was a big change, going from thinking I was only going to be moving to Arizona for a three to six month internship to realizing that I had to make the decision to move across The country to essentially become a full time engineer until I decided to move back, or if I wanted to stay there permanently, Intel was interested in recruiting students that have homes and roots in Ohio to go out and experience an internship and learn about the facilities which are going to. Similarly represent what is being built in Ohio currently. So the plan was for interns to go out and experience this internship for a couple months during the summer or during a fall semester, before returning to Ohio finishing their degree and then having a great in to be able to start their career as engineers or technicians at the Ohio facility when it's built between 2027 or later and

Peter Kazarinoff  25:27  
Emily, were some of your classmates from Lorraine Community College. Then moved to Arizona, where you are now.

Emily  25:34  
I moved to Arizona with about eight interns from my school, from my degree, working on the micro electromechanical systems program, and I am currently living with two of them, so I get to hear about the internship experience every day when I come home

Peter Kazarinoff  25:52  
and is your general feeling that a whole lot of them are going to go back to Ohio, or do you think some of them are going to stay in Arizona?

Emily  25:59  
Funny enough, I think that the plan was for the students to come out here, get their experience, return to Ohio to finish their degrees, before potentially returning to Arizona to continue their career, or waiting until the facility in Columbus opens up. But I have actually spoken to a couple of the interns who have enjoyed their time here as interns or technicians, so much that if they were offered the opportunity to continue their service without finishing the bachelor's with the associate's degree that they currently have, that they fully plan on staying. So there are some students that plan on staying until potentially the facility opens in Ohio, or that they just found a new home in Arizona.

Peter Kazarinoff  26:46  
And Emily, working for Intel, is a long term career, and it's a place that you can grow into many different roles. But what I sort of really want to know is, how did your life change when you got this full time position? What are you able to do now that you weren't able to do when you were a student?

Emily  27:11  
You know, honestly, I knew I always wanted to be an engineer. I was concerned that with my degree being what it is being an engineering technologies degree, that I essentially would not be qualified to be an engineer. And the reason why I say that is because I have now worked with both NASA and the White House as to federal programs, I learned that working adjacent to NASA, that NASA being a federal program currently only recognizes engineering degrees as eligible candidates for engineering. And my current degree is listed as a Engineering Technologies degree. And I was afraid that with that being said, I essentially wouldn't be eligible to be hired by NASA as a scientist or a researcher. I would only be eligible to be a technician. And technicians are incredible, and they are the heartbeat of so much that is going on with manufacturing and research. But I know that where my heart is is that I better align with some of the more engineering roles. When I found out that federal roles are typically reserved only for people with four year engineering university degrees, I was disappointed to find out that might have really limited my potential. So realizing that right now, with my current degree, before I go for my master's, the Federal path might not be the best choice for me. So when I found out that Intel being a private company that doesn't have the same expectations or regulations that the federal sector might have, that they fully see me as an engineer. It's not a matter of what my paper says. I am just as qualified, if not more, in some regards to some of the people that might have gone for engineering degrees at universities. And the explanation in that is that from the first day, first semester of our coursework, we are in clean rooms getting that experience. We are using tools and equipment that some programs actually don't have their students utilizing until like their junior year. A lot of the university engineering programs are very theoretical and not as practical, which is a benefit to community colleges. We are getting so many more practical skills right off the bat.

Peter Kazarinoff  29:28  
Emily, do you have any advice for faculty at community or technical colleges? You've had a lot of experience so far and now you're working at Intel. Is there anything that you would say to those faculty members that are going to be teaching the next generation of technicians and engineers,

Emily  29:47  
I would say, unfortunately, with the lack of experience that community colleges as a whole have had with some of the clean room or technical experiences offered within semiconductor manufacturing. Fracturing, there is not a lot of public or free information out there, and so I would say to hold on and hold tight, that it will get better. Colleges like mine, there are people at colleges like mine, in the Lorain County Community College program that are trying to make, there are people working towards trying to make course curriculum and equipment lists and various things to make clean room and semiconductor manufacturing course opportunities more accessible to all people across the country. So right now, there's not a lot of free and accessible information, but there are people genuinely working towards trying to make this, trying to provide as much information to people as we can.

Peter Kazarinoff  30:55  
Emily, what do you think is the coolest thing about working in the semiconductor industry?

Emily  31:00  
I would say it's really cool to have a high paying job with strong job security as a first and foremost thought, but also that it's really cool to be able to say that anytime somebody is using technology that you are part of that whether or not I am actually in a fab. It means that my work is directly contributing to the chips that are being used in everyday equipment. There's a lot of pride that goes into knowing that my work is impacting people in such fulfilling ways.

Peter Kazarinoff  31:35  
Emily, is there anything else that you'd like to share that you feel like we missed?

Emily  31:40  
I would like to say, as just a call to action to anybody who is looking for opportunities or things to do to truly get involved with your community. And I know that's really scary at some points, and it might not feel like there's a lot out there for you, but you don't know what is out there until you begin talking with people. I've been involved with a couple different professional organizations, such as the Surface Mount Technology Association, which is more specific to manufacturing, as well as the Society of Women Engineers. And both of those organizations are vast and broad, and they are full of people with your best interest and heart that are experienced and wise and beyond, beyond anything that we are doing, and that are also on the lookout for opportunities for you. So by being in the right place at the right time, which is something that you can only do when you're speaking to people and you're getting involved, is how I have been lucky enough to land some of my best opportunities. It's a lot of hard work to be able to work hard enough to be impressive, but then also working the social aspect, to meet the right people. None of it is easy, but I am not a particularly special person, but I have had really special experiences. I've been able to work to put myself in positions where people were able to consider me for opportunities that they knew about outside of my network. So I would absolutely say looking into looking into the networks and organizations in your area that can provide similar things.

Peter Kazarinoff  33:19  
Well, Emily, thank you so much for talking with me about your career and about your education and how you got into the semiconductor industry.

Emily  33:28  
Thank you so much for your time.

Peter Kazarinoff  33:30  
And please keep in touch.

Talking Technicians is produced by MNT-EC, the Micro Nano Technology Education Center through financial support from the National Science Foundation's Advanced Technological Education grant program. Opinions expressed on this podcast do not necessarily represent those of the National Science Foundation. Join the conversation: If you are a working technician, or know someone who is, reach out to us at info@talkingtechnicians.org. We're always looking out for great guests to share more stories with you.